See below for links to audio.
http://rms-rygb.blogspot.com/2013/12/conversation-today-chassidim-uniforms.html
http://rms-rygb.blogspot.com/2013/12/conversation-today-chassidim-uniforms.html
Rabbi Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer הרב יוסף גבריאל בקהופר
Could you podcast the audios?
ReplyDeleteTell me how to.
ReplyDeleteGreat stuff. I always enjoy YGB and Rabbi Schiller(?) is very impressive.
ReplyDeleteTwo thoughts:
1) The students (their questions displayed serious intellect) would be well served to spend some time in Williamsburg. Just go to a Pizza shop, strike up a conversation, you will find someone to talk to. Ignorance breeds animosity.
2) Both Rabbis ought to have serious and in depth discussion with several homosexuals. Folks with ZERO interest in the opposite sex, whose orientation was clear from a young age. I found the response somewhat lacking. How is Judaism to handle homosexuals?
Pity that the thoughts on homosexuality and the basis of Western Society haven't been carefully organized and presented as a paper. It's certainly true that there's a tension between not allowing governmental imposition of religious beliefs on individuals, on the one hand, and the essential ethical assumptions and underpinnings of society. There are certain "givens," axioms, that certainly do stem from religious beliefs, but are so essential and ingrained to society that they need to be defined as societal, not religious. Otherwise, the EU would be 100% right in outlawing bris mila prior to an individual's informed consent.
ReplyDeletethere is an inherent differential between the students and teachers. the teachers have already worked thru these issues on their own, and developed their positions. also, they have been thru this shpiel many times over the years and can easily anticipate students' questions.
ReplyDeletethe students' thoughts are not fully formed, and are more questioning than coming from a strong position.
some examples: chasidic lifestyle is pretty much set up where you have to shnorr or god forbid swindle or steal -- you cant have 0 education, start having kids at 20 and not stop till you are 40 and expect to support your family. or how isolationism breeds a sense of entitlement.
you cant marry a monkey because a monkey has no mental capacity and cannot make a marriage commitment.
marriage may be based in religion, but so is everything else. but we [modern society] have moved past that in many ways, and marriage too can evolve. in fact maybe recognizing homosexual marriage is more moral.
that countries fall when decadent [and presumably those who are morally upright are stronger and more stable] is such a sweeping judgment that it cannot be supported.
other religions have rules and give adherents a sense of purpose as well.
i look forward to hearing your response.
one more thing -- when you say people don't think these days, if you are in that room you can not be included among the non-thinkers. the kids should be complimented on that, methinks.
ReplyDeleteWhere can I find that story from Rav Soloveichik? It seems like quite an important story, and the source would be very helpful.
ReplyDeleteTo the most recent commenter:
ReplyDeleteShiurei HaRav
http://www.amazon.com/Shiurei-HaRav-Conspectus-Lectures-Soloveitchik/dp/0881254991
Reb Micha: Added audio to the post.
ReplyDeletei look forward to hearing your response.
ReplyDeleteTo what? You seem to be making statement, not posing questions.
the kids couldnt really challenge you well because, well, theyre kids. but the issues raised go beyond the answers given.
ReplyDeletethe kids are upset with hasidic chilul hashem, and the answer was yes its a problem, with 3 possible reasons for it. but the system almost begs for chilul hashem!
the question of homosexuality leaves gaping holes, which the kids could not pinpoint; what is your answer?
im happy the kids -- or at least the outspoken ones -- were proud and happy to be jewish, but there was no reason offered as to why to be specifically jewish.
in short, issues were raised that were not fully dealt with. i wonder how you would respond more fully.
the kids are upset with hasidic chilul hashem, and the answer was yes its a problem, with 3 possible reasons for it. but the system almost begs for chilul hashem!
ReplyDeleteAgain, where here is the question?
the question of homosexuality leaves gaping holes, which the kids could not pinpoint; what is your answer?
What are the gaping holes?
im happy the kids -- or at least the outspoken ones -- were proud and happy to be jewish, but there was no reason offered as to why to be specifically jewish.
Granted. We will have to visit that in a future session.