Rabbi Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
הרב יוסף גבריאל בקהופר
Friday, July 22, 2016
Why modesty (צניעות) for woman is so important
My impression is that this rabbi is very popular. He seems very sincere and k'shmo kein hu, humble. But I don't like the approach. Tzeniyus is not important because men might sin by looking at an un'tzeniyus woman. Tzeniyus is important because it is a manifestation of Hatznei'a leches im Hashem Elokecha. As in Micha's Ma Hashem Elokecha mevakesh.
I agree with him, with a slight shinui. Immodesty for a man means he's a slob and doesn't care what other people think. Immodesty for a woman is abizraihu. I think it's just the way things are. The same way Netzor leshoncha is a sam hachaim, even though it's a negative/passive, so too, dressing modestly, for a woman, is a sam hachaim. i know you don't respect him, but Reb Chaim Kanievsky was asked how a woman can be zocheh to kedusha if she doesn't learn Torah, and he answered by being very careful with tzniyus. I really think you, and my wife, are diminishing the chashivus of tzniyus by saying that it's just a matter of behaving like Queen Elizabeth.
I'm not sure how much we disagree. Of course Hatznei'a Leches is going to be manifest differently by gender, but the source is the same.
I don't not respect RCK, but it is very problematic to compare kedushah achieved by aseh tov with kedushah achieved by sur mei'ra.
While QE II is not a bad role model, of course it is very different. Besides which, while her tzeniyus is not bad, I am not sure if her Hatznei'a Leches is in the spirit of Micha HaNavi. (Although it is hard to define how HL can be applied to Malchus.)
Some discussion at https://www.facebook.com/groups/OJADAR/permalink/1121568424553820/
ReplyDeleteI agree with him, with a slight shinui. Immodesty for a man means he's a slob and doesn't care what other people think. Immodesty for a woman is abizraihu. I think it's just the way things are. The same way Netzor leshoncha is a sam hachaim, even though it's a negative/passive, so too, dressing modestly, for a woman, is a sam hachaim. i know you don't respect him, but Reb Chaim Kanievsky was asked how a woman can be zocheh to kedusha if she doesn't learn Torah, and he answered by being very careful with tzniyus. I really think you, and my wife, are diminishing the chashivus of tzniyus by saying that it's just a matter of behaving like Queen Elizabeth.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure how much we disagree. Of course Hatznei'a Leches is going to be manifest differently by gender, but the source is the same.
DeleteI don't not respect RCK, but it is very problematic to compare kedushah achieved by aseh tov with kedushah achieved by sur mei'ra.
While QE II is not a bad role model, of course it is very different. Besides which, while her tzeniyus is not bad, I am not sure if her Hatznei'a Leches is in the spirit of Micha HaNavi. (Although it is hard to define how HL can be applied to Malchus.)
Rabbenu Yonah, in Igerres HaTeshuva (88), does say that a woman has to dress Tzanua in order to not be machshil.
ReplyDeleteNot precisely:
Deleteרבינו יונה שערי תשובה "וצריכה האשה שתהא צנועה ונזהרת שלא יסתכלו בה בני אדם חוץ מבעלה…" רבינו יונה, אגרת התשובה – אות נח