ו) וְעַתָּה נַפְשֵׁנוּ יְבֵשָׁה אֵין כֹּל בִּלְתִּי אֶל הַמָּן עֵינֵינוּ:
אבן עזרא על במדבר פרק יא פסוק ו
נפשנו יבשה - היא הנפש המתאוה הנטועה בכבד:
I do not recall the source, but it is asked how the Jews could possibly complain about the Mon considering that it would taste like anything they desired. And it is answered that the Mon only tasted like specific foods when the intent that it taste as such was held in one's mind. Therefore, the Jews complained: "Isn't it enough that we must have kavannah when we daven? Now we must have kavannah when eating as well?!"
This is medukdak in the lashon of nafsheinu. The nefesh is the seat of emotion. The eating of the Mon was an essentially intellectual activity. [Chabad-style Deveykus?] The Jews objected to having eating, an essentially sensual and emotional activity, transformed into an essentially intellectually and mind-focusing activity.
Hi, Could you elaborate on what you meant by habad style hasidus?
ReplyDeleteChabad Dveykus is intellectual as opposed to emotional - see:
ReplyDeleteaishdas.org/rygb/forks.htm
From a correspondent:
ReplyDeleteIn addition to your suggestion there is, if I recall correctly, the Meshech
Chochma says that there was a paradox in eating the Mon in that it decreased
desire to eat. It was the desire to eat that they were complaining about and not the lack of a specific food -- the diyuk is from "hitavo taavo".
Moshe Rabbenu was the "shevil" or conduit through which they received their food hence the Mon was at his medreiga, and this is why the 70 zekeinim were needed to transfrom the shefa to a lower madrega at which the food could be eaten with desire.
Might I suggest that 'Intellectual' is perhaps the wrong word; it might be better to say that the Mon related to Nefesh Hasichlis rather than bahamis/tivi'is. The difference is in quality of thought. Intellectual relates to our daily thinking, the level of western thought. Nefesh hasichlis is a much more powerful kind of pure mental activity, cf Greek philosophy. Enhancing this would certainly decrease the power of nefesh habehamis and reduce desire.
ReplyDeleteLet's see if we can agree on the nomenclature:
ReplyDeleteNefesh HaSichlis would seem to be the analog of the Kabbalistic/Chassidic Neshama in the Naranchi continuum.
What you are calling intellectual is evidently the Chochmah-Binah paradigm, while the "pure mental activity" would be a kind of Da'as Tachton.
The mon, however, I would suggest, touched not just the Da'as Tachton but the Da'as Elyon, the Ruach HaKodesh core.
From Avodah:
ReplyDeleteFrom: Micha Berger micha@aishdas.org
To: Avodah - High Level Torah Discussion Group avodah@aishdas.org
Subject: Re: Manna
On Mon, Jun 20, 2005 at 09:48:23AM -0400, RYGB wrote:
: This is medukdak in the lashon of nafsheinu. The nefesh is the seat
: of emotion. The eating of the Mon was an essentially intellectual
: activity. [Chabad-style Deveykus?] The Jews objected to having eating,
: an essentially sensual and emotional activity, transformed into an
: essentially intellectually and mind-focusing activity.
Lemaaseh, kashrus -- in particular basar vechalav -- does something
similar. Elevates the act of eating from simply doing what animal do
and places it into the uniquely human realm of thought.
-mi
I do not think so. To put it "Kabbalistically" there is a vast difference between food from kelipas nogah and food from the oros elyonim.
ReplyDeleteI find nomenclature quite difficult. As you say, nefesh hasichlis is neshama in chabad. It's more than an analog, the terminology changed, that's all. Where I run aground (so far) is integrating structural models of nefesh with the sefiros. Chochma is intuitive knowledge, that comes from outside, at the level that you become aware of it. A pre-verbal 'hey I know I got the answer but can't quite understand it yet'. Drawing that down into a level where you can understand what it is you grasped (or were given) and perhaps articulate it would be binoh. What I am not clear about is the terminology for the 'everyday mind' of the average guy - what you call intellectual. This is a very mezumzamdike bit of our real mental potential, which is achieved by the activation / opening up of nefesh hasichlis, which happens when nefesh habehamis is 'crossed', i.e. purified of emotions so that you can reach to the other side of it. I'm not familiar with the terms da'as tachton and elyon, but if you pushed me I would try and run this along the lines of active and passive intellect. The problem with this is that active intellect is a universal aspect of (Divine) mind that you can tap into rather than higher aspects of your inner self. But in principal you, as a body/nefesh combine, are connecting to higher levels and receiving their wisdom and knowledge. Daas tachton would be nefesh hasichlis as a whole, which is the keli that can receive ruach (? from ruach i.e. not yet neshama), whereas da'as elyon would be outside you.
ReplyDeleteWhere would you locate a 'Ruach hakodesh core'? (and actually, what is that?)
BTW R. Chaim Vital says in shaarei kedusha that bosor vecholov is poygem in nefesh hativi'is, i.e. a much lower level.
My attempt to refine the application of the nomenclature:
ReplyDeleteChochma is intuitive knowledge, that comes from outside, at the level that you become aware of it. A pre-verbal 'hey I know I got the answer but can't quite understand it yet'.
I think that is actually Kesser. Chochmah is knowledge that can be articulated.
Drawing that down into a level where you can understand what it is you grasped (or were given) and perhaps articulate it would be binoh.
Binah follows articulation; it is the more profound understanding that allows extrapolation ("meivin davar mitoch davar").
What I am not clear about is the terminology for the 'everyday mind' of the average guy - what you call intellectual. This is a very mezumzamdike bit of our real mental potential, which is achieved by the activation / opening up of nefesh hasichlis, which happens when nefesh habehamis is 'crossed', i.e. purified of emotions so that you can reach to the other side of it.
The system distinguishes between Oros Penimiim and Oros Makifim. the Oros Penimiim are internalized, so it is available even in the presence of the nefesh ha'behamis - kinda like going from surfing the web directly to learning a blatt gemara or vice versa :-) - The Oros Makkifim are only available when *something* has been done with the nefesh behamis - what, is a major point of contention - say by the Hakkafos (the link between Hakkafos and Makkifim is made by Rav Zevin) of Simchas Torah or Kabbolas Ol Malchus Shomayim of Neilah.
The problem with this is that active intellect is a universal aspect of (Divine) mind that you can tap into rather than higher aspects of your inner self. But in principal you, as a body/nefesh combine, are connecting to higher levels and receiving their wisdom and knowledge. Daas tachton would be nefesh hasichlis as a whole, which is the keli that can receive ruach (? from ruach i.e. not yet neshama), whereas da'as elyon would be outside you.
I think both take place in neshamah. Da'as Tachton (passive intellect) is the combination: knowledge+understanding=wisdom.
Da'as Elyon (active intellect) is the additional aspect of the divine spirit. You can achieve Da'as Tachton in any realm of human inquiry, but Da'as Elyon is the product only of Torah wisdom (and is associated with the principle: "Chacham adif me'Navi").
Where would you locate a 'Ruach hakodesh core'? (and actually, what is that?)
While Ruach HaKodesh is associated with the higher functions of Neshamah, it is only accessible because of and through Chayah and Yechidah.