Tuesday, February 15, 2011

Rationalist Judaism: Rav Shlomo Zalman's Mistake - UPDATED

Rationalist Judaism: Rav Shlomo Zalman's Mistake - UPDATED

A comment from a correspondent:

Pity that Slifkin is so unaware that no matter what the merits of the post itself, how offensive and jarring the heading is to anyone who strives to be a Ben Torah.
http://www.rationalistjudaism.com/2011/02/rav-shlomo-zalmans-mistake.html.

12 comments:

  1. Anyone "striving" to be a so-called "ben Torah" who can't deal with RNS's basic headline will be "striving" for the rest of his life...

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  2. Slifkin may have not been an apikorus when the ban on his material was issued by the Geodlei Yisroel shlit"a, but he certainly became one since. Slifkin, these days, looks constantly to attack Chachmei Yisroel past and present -- everyone from Chazal to the Rabbonim today. The wisdom and foresight of those Gedolim become more apparent with each passing day.

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  3. Unfortunately I am having reservations about purchasing his updated Torah/Science books. I was against the ban on his books, as the bans appear to me to be silencing legitimate voices from within the mesorah--an exceedingly bad thing to my mind. R'Slifkin has a tendency, however, to make bold assertions about serious issues, when his foundations are questionable. Several weeks ago he announced his decision to become an organ donor, while admitting that he knew little about the brain death controversy. Since then he has publicly advanced unusual theses, based on his readings of the Ramban, which open the window for allowing individuals who lack a nefesh hamaskeles (rational soul) to have their organs removed for the sake of others. This would (potentially) include individuals in a coma, persistent vegetative state, or those born with significant cognitive impairments, and not just those who have been termed "brain dead," by Tendler et al. I don't know if he quite appreciates that his public status as a Rabbi imbues his words with greater authority (in the minds of some) than he himself might think is warranted.

    To be fair, R' Slifkin (I don't think) is attempting to pasken--he's essentially thinking out loud. But wittingly or unwittingly he has become a public, and in certain circles respected, authority on Torah-science issues. Advancing wild theories that pertain to life and death issues, and insisting that his view is likely the most rational way of looking at things, can have a deleterious influence on those who may mistakenly believe his authority in these issues is greater than it really is.

    I would purchase his books, as a valuable reference for sources that the chareidi world seems to disregard, for the sake of any children I might have that might balk at an obscurantist approach to Torah-science issues. However, I am not sure what R'Slifkin will be like in 10 years or so: he has undergone a lot of harsh treatment, which can be embittering. He also seems to lack a certain intellectual forbearance, which may be his undoing down the line as a public figure.

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  4. I think that RYGB is frustrated that he was so thoroughly ripped apart in the comments section on his "kidneys" post. And embarrassed that he was also called out for being even more "anti-mesorah" than RNS.

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  5. I think that when you look at his marketing strategy from Day One, he always chooses provocative titles, subjects and engages in theological brinkmanship. (It's just that before the ban, his conclusions were generally Pro-Orthodox. Now his conclusions are generally anti.)

    This is virtually Slifkin's trade mark and I'm surprised that you're surprised.

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  6. How are his conclusions "anti-orthodoxy"? That is a hoot and a hollar.

    His title is provacative, but are you claiming that people don't make mistakes? What are you, one of the Gedolim tat banned making of a gadol?

    Yes, even Gedolim make mistakes and, as RNS points out, they ADMIT TO THEM! I don't see how this is offensive if you read the article. He is not laughing at RSZ, but using his admitted mistake to show a point.

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  7. The notion that it is inappropriate to point out the mistakes of religious leaders is proof that Judaism has become more about emotionalism and religious sentimentalism than it is about intellectualism or the search for truth. Prophets make mistakes. Kings make mistakes. Tannaim and Amoraim make mistakes (or does the word 'tiyuvta' mean a mistake/refutation but not 'really' a mistake/refutation)

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  8. Is this the end of kashrut as we know it. I mean no more separate dishes?

    Check out the link;

    http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/01/31/growing-meat-labs-end-hunger/

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  9. The epidemic of ignorant arrogance posing as rationalism may signal that the geulah is imminent.

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  10. How are his conclusions "anti-orthodoxy"? That is a hoot and a hollar.

    Accept the truth from wherever it comes.

    His title is provocative,

    Thank you for the frank admission.

    but are you claiming that people don't make mistakes?

    Nope. What did I say which implied that I did?

    What are you, one of the Gedolim that banned making of a gadol?

    I wish I was... Many things that are true need not be denied but they also need not be published.

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  11. I don't see how this is offensive if you read the article. He is not laughing at RSZ, but using his admitted mistake to show a point.

    No-one said the post itself was offensive. Only it's heading.

    If you don't see how using a gadol's mistake as a marketing ploy to attract readers to your post is offensive, then we live on different planets.

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  12. Blogger Joseph said...

    Slifkin may have not been an apikorus when the ban on his material was issued by the Geodlei Yisroel shlit"a, but he certainly became one since. Slifkin, these days, looks constantly to attack Chachmei Yisroel past and present -- everyone from Chazal to the Rabbonim today. The wisdom and foresight of those Gedolim become more apparent with each passing day.


    wrong. The rabbonim who were pro-slifkin at the time warned if the charedi world rejects and bans slifkin, he will go over to the modern orthodox world and go off the deep end. this prediction is so painfully true.

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