Friday, July 22, 2016

Why modesty (צניעות) for woman is so important




My impression is that this rabbi is very popular. He seems very sincere and k'shmo kein hu, humble. But I don't like the approach. Tzeniyus is not important because men might sin by looking at an un'tzeniyus woman. Tzeniyus is important because it is a manifestation of Hatznei'a leches im Hashem Elokecha. As in Micha's Ma Hashem Elokecha mevakesh.

5 comments:

  1. Some discussion at https://www.facebook.com/groups/OJADAR/permalink/1121568424553820/

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  2. I agree with him, with a slight shinui. Immodesty for a man means he's a slob and doesn't care what other people think. Immodesty for a woman is abizraihu. I think it's just the way things are. The same way Netzor leshoncha is a sam hachaim, even though it's a negative/passive, so too, dressing modestly, for a woman, is a sam hachaim. i know you don't respect him, but Reb Chaim Kanievsky was asked how a woman can be zocheh to kedusha if she doesn't learn Torah, and he answered by being very careful with tzniyus. I really think you, and my wife, are diminishing the chashivus of tzniyus by saying that it's just a matter of behaving like Queen Elizabeth.

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    1. I'm not sure how much we disagree. Of course Hatznei'a Leches is going to be manifest differently by gender, but the source is the same.

      I don't not respect RCK, but it is very problematic to compare kedushah achieved by aseh tov with kedushah achieved by sur mei'ra.

      While QE II is not a bad role model, of course it is very different. Besides which, while her tzeniyus is not bad, I am not sure if her Hatznei'a Leches is in the spirit of Micha HaNavi. (Although it is hard to define how HL can be applied to Malchus.)

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  3. Rabbenu Yonah, in Igerres HaTeshuva (88), does say that a woman has to dress Tzanua in order to not be machshil.

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    1. Not precisely:

      רבינו יונה שערי תשובה "וצריכה האשה שתהא צנועה ונזהרת שלא יסתכלו בה בני אדם חוץ מבעלה…" רבינו יונה, אגרת התשובה – אות נח

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