Moshe Lerman suggested a solution to the "missing-year" problem by pointing out a possible connection between the Jewish count of the years and the two Mahzorim (cycles) that are observed in Jewish tradition - the "small" 19-year cycle that is the basis of the Jewish calendar, and the "big" 28-year cycle that determines the year in which Birchat HaHama, the Blessing of the Sun, is recited. Mathematically, if one knows the position of a certain year in both cycles, one can compute the number associated it modulo 532 (19 times 28), assuming that both cycles started in the year 1.
It all starts with the biblical account of creation, according to which the Sun was created on the fourth day. Jewish tradition commemorates the creation of the Sun by reciting a special Blessing when the Spring equinox thought to be occurring at the start of the night before the fourth day of the week, the moment the Sun is assumed to have been created (Babylonian Talmud 59). Jewish law stipulates that the Blessing be said every 10227 days, 28 times 326.25 days. The next date set is April 8 2009 (Jewish year 5769). Because the astronomical year is slightly shorter than 365.25 days, the date of the Blessing shifts away from the Spring equinox as history proceeds. A simple astronomical calculation shows that 84 cycles of 28 years before 5769, in the Jewish year 3417, the Spring equinox was in the beginning of the night before the fourth day of the week as stipulated by the Talmud. Lerman takes this as a hint that the Jewish sages must have thought at the time that the Jewish year 3417 was a first year in the cycle of 28 years. Moreover, Lerman suggests that the Jewish sages would have reasoned that year 3421 was a first year in the 19-year cycle, in accordance with an ancient tradition that the world was created in the first week of the month of Nissan. They would have concluded this from the Spring equinox occurring early in the night leading to the fourth day of the Jewish month of Nissan in the Jewish year 3421.
Lerman surmises that the Jewish sages at the time could argue for a determination of the position of their years in both cycles and could therefore compute the count of the year modulo 532 years. They were left with a number of options, 532 years apart from each other, and Lerman suggests that they picked the number closest to what seemed to be the truth according to biblical accounts. Lerman therefore solves the "missing-year" problem by suggesting that if such was the beginning of the Jewish year-count, and no such count existed before, only dates later than the beginning of the 34 Jewish century would have historical value. The sages naturally fixed the small mismatch between the year that they computed and the biblical accounts by contracting the length of the Babylonian exile.
BiMechilat Kvodo Shel HaRav Bechhofer: Using secular sources (Jewish or Christian) to cast doubt on our Mesorah is inappropriate for a Torah blog. Even those who have doubts about the absolute accuracy of everything our CHAZAL said know that RASHI and other great Talmidei Chachamim of past generations had Ruach HaKodesh. RASHI states very clearly (in the last Perek of Masechet Sanhedrin and in the first Perek of Masechet Avodah Zarah) that the Churban Bayit Rishon was in 3338 and the Churban bayit Sheini in 3828. Other than the slight disagreement -- among the Baalei HaTosafot, the RAMBAM, the Meiri, the GRA, and others -- over one or two years in their interpretation, what RASHI BeRuach Kadsho taught us is the Word of G-d! Challenging It is Am HaAratzut or worse, Apikorsut!
Both are correct. The Mesorah uses "480" coding. From Yetziat Mitsrayim to Bait Rishon was 480 years, says Sefer Melachim. But check the yichus of David HaMelach, 480 is too much. Divide by two. It is 240.
From Bayit Rishon to Bayit Sheni is 410 plus 70, says Seder Olam. Again 480. Again, code. Now it is too much. Multiply by 10/3 and get 1600. (So Galut Bavel was 70 times 10/3 is 233 years and a third; the "missing years" gap of the post is between 163 and 164 years).
Bayit Sheni was 3409 in our count(add one to the Tana says the Gemara). So, the building of Bayit Rishon, the fourth year of Shlomo HaMelech, was 1809. Yetziat Mitsrayim was 1569, the end of the old Egyptian Dynasty.
It all fits. The Hyksos were Jews. The secular dating is not to be looked down upon. It is not "secular" at all. It is just the result of figuring out a puzzle. Beware, my dear friends. Chazal spoke in code. Go figure.
How can they not have Mitchell First's book in the references?
ReplyDeleteMaybe because he is wrong. :-)
ReplyDeleteWhere can i find info on Ben Sira seforim and such
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Sira
ReplyDeleteMoshe Lerman suggested a solution to the "missing-year" problem by pointing out a possible connection between the Jewish count of the years and the two Mahzorim (cycles) that are observed in Jewish tradition - the "small" 19-year cycle that is the basis of the Jewish calendar, and the "big" 28-year cycle that determines the year in which Birchat HaHama, the Blessing of the Sun, is recited. Mathematically, if one knows the position of a certain year in both cycles, one can compute the number associated it modulo 532 (19 times 28), assuming that both cycles started in the year 1.
ReplyDeleteIt all starts with the biblical account of creation, according to which the Sun was created on the fourth day. Jewish tradition commemorates the creation of the Sun by reciting a special Blessing when the Spring equinox thought to be occurring at the start of the night before the fourth day of the week, the moment the Sun is assumed to have been created (Babylonian Talmud 59). Jewish law stipulates that the Blessing be said every 10227 days, 28 times 326.25 days. The next date set is April 8 2009 (Jewish year 5769). Because the astronomical year is slightly shorter than 365.25 days, the date of the Blessing shifts away from the Spring equinox as history proceeds. A simple astronomical calculation shows that 84 cycles of 28 years before 5769, in the Jewish year 3417, the Spring equinox was in the beginning of the night before the fourth day of the week as stipulated by the Talmud. Lerman takes this as a hint that the Jewish sages must have thought at the time that the Jewish year 3417 was a first year in the cycle of 28 years. Moreover, Lerman suggests that the Jewish sages would have reasoned that year 3421 was a first year in the 19-year cycle, in accordance with an ancient tradition that the world was created in the first week of the month of Nissan. They would have concluded this from the Spring equinox occurring early in the night leading to the fourth day of the Jewish month of Nissan in the Jewish year 3421.
Lerman surmises that the Jewish sages at the time could argue for a determination of the position of their years in both cycles and could therefore compute the count of the year modulo 532 years. They were left with a number of options, 532 years apart from each other, and Lerman suggests that they picked the number closest to what seemed to be the truth according to biblical accounts. Lerman therefore solves the "missing-year" problem by suggesting that if such was the beginning of the Jewish year-count, and no such count existed before, only dates later than the beginning of the 34 Jewish century would have historical value. The sages naturally fixed the small mismatch between the year that they computed and the biblical accounts by contracting the length of the Babylonian exile.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/5096
I was more looking for seforim
ReplyDeleteI added a section about Lerman's theory in the Wikipedia article. Your merit, RYGB.
ReplyDeleteBiMechilat Kvodo Shel HaRav Bechhofer:
ReplyDeleteUsing secular sources (Jewish or Christian) to cast doubt on our Mesorah is inappropriate for a Torah blog. Even those who have doubts about the absolute accuracy of everything our CHAZAL said know that RASHI and other great Talmidei Chachamim of past generations had Ruach HaKodesh. RASHI states very clearly (in the last Perek of Masechet Sanhedrin and in the first Perek of Masechet Avodah Zarah) that the Churban Bayit Rishon was in 3338 and the Churban bayit Sheini in 3828. Other than the slight disagreement -- among the Baalei HaTosafot, the RAMBAM, the Meiri, the GRA, and others -- over one or two years in their interpretation, what RASHI BeRuach Kadsho taught us is the Word of G-d! Challenging It is Am HaAratzut or worse, Apikorsut!
You're barking up the wrong tree. I'm 100% pro our mesorah and 100% anti the secular dating.
ReplyDeleteBoth are correct. The Mesorah uses "480" coding. From Yetziat Mitsrayim to Bait Rishon was 480 years, says Sefer Melachim. But check the yichus of David HaMelach, 480 is too much. Divide by two. It is 240.
ReplyDeleteFrom Bayit Rishon to Bayit Sheni is 410 plus 70, says Seder Olam. Again 480. Again, code. Now it is too much. Multiply by 10/3 and get 1600. (So Galut Bavel was 70 times 10/3 is 233 years and a third; the "missing years" gap of the post is between 163 and 164 years).
Bayit Sheni was 3409 in our count(add one to the Tana says the Gemara). So, the building of Bayit Rishon, the fourth year of Shlomo HaMelech, was 1809. Yetziat Mitsrayim was 1569, the end of the old Egyptian Dynasty.
It all fits. The Hyksos were Jews. The secular dating is not to be looked down upon. It is not "secular" at all. It is just the result of figuring out a puzzle. Beware, my dear friends. Chazal spoke in code. Go figure.