Of Bein HaZmanim and of Rabbi Sorotzkin, a Podcast with Rabbi Mayer Schiller and Rabbi Ben Waxman

Fathom Summary:

Meeting Purpose

Analyze recent Haredi rabbinic statements and their underlying worldview.

Key Takeaways

• Recent rabbinic statements (by R' Aaron Levy, R' Sorotzkin) infantilize yeshiva students, creating a self-serving mythology that elevates their Torah study above all other service, including IDF duty.
• This worldview is rooted in an extreme interpretation of Torah Lishma (study for its own sake), which justifies a positive form of gaiva (pride/arrogance) to maintain social status and insulate the community.
• The resulting cognitive dissonance—e.g., supporting right-wing politics while rejecting the IDF—is enabled by extreme insularity, which fosters ignorance and moral blindness.
• The community's silence on these statements may signal indifference, a response to the perceived ineffectiveness of constant criticism.

Topics

The Problem: Recent Rabbinic Statements

• R' Aaron Levy (Video):
  • Advice: Pamper yeshiva students during Ben Hazmanim (vacation); don't ask them to help or criticize late sleeping.
  • Analogy: Compared students to IDF soldiers returning from a war zone, implying their spiritual struggle is equivalent to physical combat.
• R' Sorotzkin (Mishpacha Podcast):
  • Contradiction: Stated students are "partners with God" for creating a chiddush (new insight), yet also advised parents to tell them to help with dishes if idle.
  • Political Stance: Voting for a Haredi party by choice is "destroying Torah"; the only valid vote is blind obedience to rabbinic instruction.

The Root Cause: An Extreme Worldview

• Positive Gaiva (Pride/Arrogance):
  • The yeshiva system is based on gaiva, a strategy to elevate the status of students who were historically looked down upon.
  • This pride is framed as a necessary tool for waging "war" against external pressures (e.g., army service) and internal competition.
• Extreme Torah Lishma:
  • The worldview stems from R' Chaim Volozhin's interpretation of Torah Lishma as study purely for its own sake, detached from worldly application.
  • Contrast: Other views see Torah Lishma as a guide for life (R' Samson Raphael Hirsch, Kotzker) or a means to dveikus (connection to God) (Baal Shem Tov).

The Consequences: Contradictions & Insularity

• Cognitive Dissonance:
  • Politics: Supporting right-wing politics while rejecting the IDF, which executes those policies.
  • Curiosity: Encouraging independence in Torah study while demanding conformity in all other areas of life.
• Infantilization:
  • Treating grown men as children who need to be told whether or not to help at home.
  • Analogy: The Gra vs. Baal Shem Tov debate on prioritizing study over family needs, highlighting the tension between these worldviews.
• Insularity & Denial:
  • Physical separation (Haredi-only cities) fosters ignorance of external realities.
  • Example: A Haredi boy unaware of ongoing conflicts in Israel.
  • Example: MK Maklev's claim that one cannot be both a soldier and a serious learner, despite evidence to the contrary.
  • Example: The Moetzes Chachmei HaTorah's letter to the Supreme Court, rejecting the court's authority while simultaneously engaging with it.